No Birth Record for my Great-Grandfather

[catemma]

I am currently researching my family tree and have hit a major stumbling block as I cannot find the birth record for my great-grandfather Robert Stanley.

According to his death certificate, Robert was born on 11th December 1903 in London. He married my great-grandmother Emily Ford in 1926 in Hammersmith and they went on to have eight children. Robert's father is listed as Robert Stanley on the marriage certifcate, occupation 'Of Independent Means' and was deceased at the time of the marriage. My great-grandfather Robert died in 1979 in Wandsworth.

There is one record of a Robert Stanley born in West Ham in late 1903 but having received his birth certificate, it confirmed it was the wrong Robert Stanley (wrong father's name and date of birth). My mum and grandmother have never known him to be called anything other than Robert so it is a real mystery.

Anyone help?

[Macamah]

Hi Catemma,

Sorry i can't help you with your problem as such but just wanted to share i had the same problem with my Grandmother.On her death certificate her place of birth was given as Fleetwood, given to the authorities by her son, my father.But unbeknowing to him she had actually been born the other side of the country in Lowestoft.Maybe your family just assumed he was from London or he could have easily have had another name as you suggested.It's an expensive way to keep ordering certificates to find the truth.If he served during the war, his war records could possibly help.Did he have siblings, and if so, were they all born in London.A quick check of the 1911 census doesn't produce a Robert Stanley born 1903 living in London but there is a Robert b.1902 living Greenwich.My London geography is zero so i've no idea if this is near where you need to be.

Regards,
Mark

[catemma]

His daughter (my great-Aunt) registered the death and just recorded his place of birth as 'London'. The GRO have performed a search and stated that there was no-one named Robert Stanley born in England or Wales on 11 December 1903. They also searched one year either side of that date (1902-4).

It is believed that my great-grandfather was an only child. That 1911 census record for Robert Stanley born in 1902, Greenwich shows four siblings and a father named Frank so I believe this is incorrect.

I do know that my great-grandfather served with the RASC during the Second World War but have no idea how I would go about getting his service records.

From his marriage certificate, I have established that his father (my great-great Grandfather) was also called Robert Stanley but was dead by 1926 as he is listed as deceased on the certificate. My Nan remembers her paternal grandmother visiting as a child so I assume she died in the 1940s some time.

What has confused me is that I would assume that for his marriage, a birth certificate would have been produced. If it did use an alternative name, I don't know how I would go about finding his birth record.

[callbrian]

Hello,
I have searched the 1911 census for you.
I can only find one Robert Stanley with a father as Robert Stanley. He also has a brother and sister. This Robert was born in Sydenham Kent in 1901. They were living 5 Castle Square, Peckham. If you think this could be your Robert I will forward the rest of the details.
Brian

[callbrian]

Hi again,
further to my previous post. I found in the 1881 census a Robert Stanley b 1838 living 19 Upper Hall St, Camberwell, with a wife and six children including a Robert Stanley, who I believe could be the same as the father in the 1911 census.
Brian

[catemma]

I already have those details and sadly think their incorrect - Robert (father - gas fitter) and Ada (nee Burridge, mother, born 23 May 1875 in India). I found their marriage record - married in 1896 in Milton Kent. Their son Robert WG Stanley was born in 1901 and I have found a death record for a Robert William G Stanley born 11 Jan 1901, died in 1980 in Greenwich.

Could it be possible that his birth wasn't registered in 1903? If he is using a middle name/alternative name I don't think I'll ever solve this mystery

[Sylcec]

Sadly, it may be the case that the details Robert Stanley gave when he married your grandmother, may have been incorrect, but given to cover up what at the time would have been an unpleasant truth:
- he may have been illegitimate and not known who his father was
- he could have been orphaned soon after birth, been a foundling, etc - and later created an identity for himself
- his parents may have separated or divorced when he was very young, in which case he still has no memory of his father
- even though the family didn't know it, he could have had a different first name, with Robert being his middle name
- he may have been born before* his parents married and his birth was actually registered under his mother's maiden surname, but he nevertheless was always known by his father's surname (or they may never have married)
These suggestions may seem fanciful - but I have come across all of them in different families.

I don't think that you mentioned Robert Stanley's occupation at the time of his marriage in 1926 - is there likely to be a clue in this? If his year of birth is correct, I think that he was too young to sign up for WWI.

[catemma]

My great-grandfather's occupation on his marriage certificate is 'Timber Merchants, Motor Lorry Driver'. My great-grandparents were married on 30th January 1926 in Hammersmith and his age is listed as 22. He served in WW2 in the Royal Army Service Corps (I have photographs and a regiment number).

My grandmother remembers her paternal grandmother (my great-great grandmother) visiting when she was a small child which should rule out the orphan theory. I believe it is either a middle name issue or he was illegitimate.

I have been browsing the birth records in the last quarter of 1903 and the first of 1904 to find boys with the surname Stanley born in the London area, and then cross reference death records to rule them out. I could also try to research his father.

All very frustrating!

[Sylcec]

Is it worth trying to solve this from a different angle? Several times you have referred to your gt gt grandmother, a lady remembered by your grandmother, but you have not mentioned her name. Hopefully this isn't because no-one remembers her name! Assuming therefore that her name is known, why not try and trace her - probably beginning with her death certificate - you know or can work out when she was last seen alive. Then try to find her in 1911 and 1901, but being prepared for her surname to be different in each of these censuses.
Good luck - Sylvia

[catemma]

Unfortunately no-one knows the name of my great-Grandfather's mother - it would've solved this mystery very quickly if I did. All I know about my Great-Grandfather's parentage is that his father had died by 1926 and was 'Of Independent Means' on my great-grandfather's wedding certificate. My grandmother (his daughter) was born in 1935 and I assume that if my grandmother was able to remember her paternal Grandmotheer visiting she must have been at least five at the time so her grandmother must have still been alive in the 1940s. I am going to apply for my great-grandfather's RASC WW2 service records to try and help.