no body, authorities presume dead

[karenorrell]

Hi All,

After a long year of research I have FINALLY uncovered a little nugget of information that appears to support my family's story that our ancestors were lost on the RMS Leinster. The London Beth Din sent me a copy of a minute book entry relating to the 3rd marriage of my gg uncle Abraham Harris. It states that Abraham "asked for permission to marry his wife's sister. The wife was on the Leinster which sank (illegible) all passengers on Oct 10th 1918. The civil authorities presume death." What civil authorities? If civil authorities presume death, does this mean that a death certificate is then given?? Any ideas where to look anybody?

Thanks

karen

[Sylcec]

There is a website devoted to the sinking of the RMS Leinster http://www.rmsleinster.com/home.htm
In one place it says:

In the days that followed bodies were recovered from the sea. Funerals took place in many parts of Ireland. Some bodies were brought to Britain, Canada and the United States for burial. One hundred and forty four military casualties were buried in Grangegorman Military Cemetery in Dublin.
Officially 501 people died in the sinking, making it both the greatest ever loss of life in the Irish and the highest ever casualty rate on an Irish owned ship. Research to date has revealed the names of 529 casualties.

There is also a forum for discussion of RMS Leinster topics here: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=54961
Some casualties are listed here: http://baseportal.com/baseportal/research/WW1?DateOfDeathText==10th+October+1918&PlaceOfDeath==At+Sea
but I have not been able to find a complete casualty list - not surprising as apparently a full passenger list for the RMS Leinster has not survived.

As for a death certificate ... the civil authorities could mean the General Registry Office for England and Wales, or for Ireland. Suggest that you search all available indexes.
Sylvia

[karenorrell]

Hi Sylvia, Thanks for your reply. I have searched the England / Wales GRO records but no joy. The family search.org Irish records also return nothing. The Irish GRO said the deaths might turn up in the Marine registers. I think I am looking at a very real possibility that the bodies were never recovered and identified - in which case would some authority (a court?) have declared them dead, but no certificate would have been issued? Or would a certificate be issued after a person was declared dead? Note that the Beth Din records state the authorities presume death - not that they have declared death! I suppose this could mean that they are not "officially" dead... karen