Marriage Certificates

[ragged staff]

Hello everyone, I wonder if anyone can help me with this one:

I have been trying to track down the younger sister of my great grandfather. Mary Harris was born in 1866 and was last seen living with her widowed father and elder sister in Birmingham in 1881. Assuming she was married between 1881 and 1891, I identified all the Mary Harris's I have been able to find, married in Birmingham between those dates; 8 in all. I have ordered all the certificates via the GRO stipulating James Harris as the father and everyone has drawn a blank (and a reduced bill of £3 each, of course. Then while gazing at what I have I realised that Mary's father himself died in 1885. This means that for those certificates previously ordered for marriages after 1885 would (presumably) not name the father. If this is so, then I can return to the drawing board for 5 of those I had requested before. The question is, does a deceased father's name appear on a marriage certificate of this time? If it doesn't, what other clues can I look for to prevent the risk of me spending £35 by ordering all five? It seems that the only other piece of information I can stipulate is the church that the wedding took place. Here I can assume perhaps that the parish church in the area they lived will be correct (and certainly her brother and sister were married there). There remains the risk that several of these Mary Harris's were married in the same church or that my Mary married somewhere else.

Am I missing something else here or am I working on the right tracks and will just have to take the plunge whatever it costs in the end.

Look forward to receiving the usual inspiration and words of wisdom one tends to get from this forum.

Kind regards,

Roger.

[Tilliduff]

On all the marriage certificates that I have received where the father is no longer alive the father is named, with occupation, and has been noted as deceased.

I think that by restricting your search to one church would be very risky - you don't know what happened to Mary in the intervening years. I would actually say to broaden your search - I know it is difficult with a name that brings up a lot of entries, but you may get some clue when you find a possible one.

[ragged staff]

Thanks Tilliduff. I guess that's not quite what I wanted to hear as it would appear that all 8 I have requested really are 'blanks.' Looks like I will have to do things the hard way after all.

[Tilliduff]

Do you know for sure that the father's baptismal name was James? People used to change names a fair bit, and if you are going by censuses in saying he was known as James then it is worth getting a birth certificate for him if you can.

[ragged staff]

I undertstand where you're going with this but I'm pretty certain James is the man. He's been James in every census from 1841 and he appears as James on the marriage certificates of each of his other two children. I haven't got a birth certificate for him ... I know he was born in 1824 in Atherstone though.

[Sylcec]

Am I missing something here ? You said:

Mary Harris was born in 1866 and was last seen living with her widowed father and elder sister in Birmingham in 1881. Assuming she was married between 1881 and 1891

,

Why do we have to assume that she married? Are you making this assumption because you can't find her on the 1891 census, and hence have now 'lost' her, or is there further information available which means you know for sure that she married, e.g. children etc (but then I suppose you would know her married name).

If you don't know for certain, then consider other possibilities:
[list=]she may have died between 1881-1891 (though no doubt you have checked for this)
she may have left home and gone into service
she may have left home and gone overseas, either alone or as a lady's maid[/list]

None of the above may be realistic or practical suggestions - maybe you would like to provide more specific details of the family group, with father's occupation etc etc as you find them in 1881.
Cheers, Sylvia

[SER1]

Have you checked the 1891 census for Marys with the surnames you found in the marriages to see if any details (eg dob and place of birth) match your Mary?

[ragged staff]

A couple of thought provoking offeringe there, thanks.

You've guessed Sylvia, that my assumption that my Mary got married is just that. I have checked for the possibility that she died. I even checked other possibilities and found a Mary Harris of similar age in a home in Birmingham (albeit another part of the city) down as "imbicile from birth." I hadn't considered that she may have moved away for work or in the forces however. It's clear that I will need to do some more digging.

Thanks to you too SER1. I haven't been able to follow up the sirnames of the ones that other Mary Harris's married because I don't know them. I settled for paying the reduced £3 fee and didn't, therefore, get the certificates ... assuming (there I go again) that's what you meant.

Thanks again to you both.

Roger.

[SER1]

Re your reply saying you do not know the possible married names as you did not order the certificates, if on Ancestry or Freebmd you find the marriages for Mary Harris then view others on page you will have a list of prospective husbands.

Eg in 1895 there is a marriage for Mary Harris in Birmingham who married either Edward Bagnall or John Moorfield. Look in the 1901 census for Mary Bagnall or Mary Moorfield.

Hope this helps - I have found several spouses this way.

[ksouthall]

Re your reply saying you do not know the possible married names as you did not order the certificates, if on Ancestry or Freebmd you find the marriages for Mary Harris then view others on page you will have a list of prospective husbands.

Eg in 1895 there is a marriage for Mary Harris in Birmingham who married either Edward Bagnall or John Moorfield. Look in the 1901 census for Mary Bagnall or Mary Moorfield.

Hope this helps - I have found several spouses this way.

I have also found several spouses this way. It takes a bit of time and is not 100% conclusive, however can be cross referenced against the later Birth Indexes, through the mother's maiden name, assuming there were children born after about 1912.